HDD locked up

For all discussions regarding the JVC HM-HDS1 (40GB hard disk and S-VHS recorder)

Moderators: andywilks, Geert Jan

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Andy Cippico
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Post by Andy Cippico »

Hmmm.. tricky one, but I'd say the HD was on the way out. You could try replacing it if you have the inclination to do so.

What worries me are the two noises you're hearing. It's possible that something else is causing the HD to fail. If the power supply is flaky then it could be sending unlean power to the various components. This might well cause the problems you are seeing.

I'd take the cover off and try running the unit with the HD unplugged and see if the noises persist. If you still get the humming and hissing I'd get it seen to by a JVC service centre. This might cost you, though...
If the noise disappears when you unplug the HD, then I'd replace it. Follow the instructions on http://www.cippico.com/technical/jvc-hm-hds1 if you're brave.

Andy.

MerleOne
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Post by MerleOne »

Thanks ! Just before opening it, I intend to transfer onto DVDs the few S-VHS I have so far recorded. Then the hardest part will happen : my JVC is integrated in a not-so-clever IKEA furniture that is very convenient when it comes to hide cables but quite cumbersome when one is to unplug something from the mains or AV cables. I'll gladly turn this furniture into small wood for heating but I am using electric radiators...

Anyway, I really intend to do as you mention, I will be able to test the HDD for defaults as well, which will perhaps reveal the cause for this problem.

I have read the direction on the link, and downloaded the ghost image. I think I found one UK reseller that stocks the required maxtor model (100? including S/H for France), which is still worth it if the problem actually lies there.

Thanks for your support !

MerleOne
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Post by MerleOne »

Something new has come up : while my JVC was still more or less working, I was able to delete all remaining recorded data, as well as VHS thumbnails. I also disabled the timeshift feature (setting TS to off or 0mn). Then I powered down my JVC for 10 days and I just wanted to check if the problem was still there. To my great surprise it seems to have disappeared, at least for now. I have been able to record on HDD and view 2 hours @ SP quality.

Hopefully it will live a little bit longer...

.merle1.

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andywilks
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Post by andywilks »

Sorry to not reply earlier... been away.. and I wasn't 'notified' about posts in this forum topic...

As for the noises from the unit.. the fan in the rear does run all day.. (when the clock is set) from I think 8 am to 11pm or so.. even in standby.

Also from time to time it will come on for a few minutes.. usually on the hour for 5 mins - initially to update the clock- and probably to do some housekeeping like a quick disc defrag. Nothing too comprehensive as we've already established - unfortunately, as thats where a scandisk type prog might recover bad data in the OS area stopping the corruptions that occur from time to time.

If you've got other noises then it really must be the HDD. The main psu is an SMPSU operating (switching) at least twice line rate usually (ie 32Khz) so you can't hear it directly, but if current loads change (like the HDD drawing extra current as it clacks or changes speed then the PSU will react and could therefore conceivably make a hissing type of noise when under a lot more load.

I read with interest the section about problems disappearing when Live memory is disabled. Unlike the hds4 the hds1 I think stops the constant video E-E buffering via the HDD, so perhaps the bad/corrupted section of the drive is in that area reserved for Live mem use or prog data( as opposed to the OS area ). Re-recording over the section again will be ok if it was just corrupted, but if there are bad sectors will fault again when the drive fills up and accesses them. Hopefully by now you have recorded a lot more data and will have some more info..?

As we've covered elsewhere in the forum you can clone the drive and/or find a clean image to put on it.
Its also just worth mentioning there are to my knowledge 6 versions of the drive/eeprom software out there in use. (notified by letters A-F usually in pen on a small sticker on the drive (later versions have letters eg D04F)
The images for different versions are not interchangeable as far as we know.
(If anyone reading this knows otherwise then please let me know)

AW

MerleOne
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Post by MerleOne »

Hi all,

After several days and many recordings, almost filling up the HDD, the problems I had experienced seem gone for now. I don't doubt they will come back, but until then, I keep my fingers crossed !

If they return, then I will probably open it and examine the HDD.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

.merle1.

MerleOne
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Post by MerleOne »

Hi again,

My problems with my JVC have started again.

I finally managed to open my JVC and examine the HDD. I have used two different softwares to check the drive, HDD Regen from dposoft and spinrite 6 from grc.com.

None of them detected any faulty sector. Spinrite unfortunately crashes when analyzing past 84% of the HDD. But the other software finds no problem, so I guess the problem lies elsewhere !

.merle1.

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andywilks
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Drive problems

Post by andywilks »

Hi
The drive can check ok, but have somehow corrupted some data - perhaps by accidntally overwiriting an important area. This would explain why the drive checks ok, but fails to initialise properly /load Boot files.

You could do with trying to copy a known good image onto the drive - making sure it comes from the same drive type. (which software version is it? ( There will be something like a 4C or 4D or just a pencilled letter letter A-E on the HDD)

AW

MerleOne
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Post by MerleOne »

Actually, the only problems that remain are the following :

1/ The unit doesn't respond well to the remote, I have to press the remote touch a longer time than I used to to see a command taken into account. I, of course, changed the remote batteries. I also noticed that with the same remote, the actions on my TV didn't exhibit the same delays, so it probably comes from the main unit.

2/ When I record programs, and I play them afterwards, some of them have random problems, ie the image freezes for a second, then playing resumes, most of the time. It's usually only a second in a three hours program.

I'll check the software version next time I open it. Thanks for the support.

.merle1.

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andywilks
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Post by andywilks »

The first symptom is indicative of corrupted boot files/OS hence the program loop is running strange.

The 2nd looks like the HDD itself glitching- 1st stages of it anyway....It seems the glitching whilst on 'record' mode can record data in the wrong sector- overwriting OS data etc...


Is it worse when warm- the HDD failures I've had seem to be...

AW

MerleOne
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Post by MerleOne »

This summer, when T? was quite hot here where I live, it's when I got the most disturbed operation of my JVC. I finally shut it down for some days and it got better when I restarted it.

Before reloading a fresh JVC OS, I would really like to backup the current content, one never knows...

.merle1.

MerleOne
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:54 am

Post by MerleOne »

Hello all,

Here is an update that might be of some interest to you :

I reopened my JVC this week-end, extracted the HDD and inserted it in a USB to IDE enclosure, in order to backup it and have it processed by some HDD software.

I failed to make a backup, because all available software I have couldn't backup something seen as an empty partition (I tried Paragon Drive Backup, Acronis True Image 8, and BootIt NG). I probably should also have tried Image for DOS, also from Terabytes Unlimited.

Anyway, I decided to try again Spinrite 6, but this time in Level 4 mode. Spinrite has 5 modes, first mode is basically check the surface and try to recover faulty sectors, 4th is deep-check the surface, by reading the current sector data, rewriting it, checking , inverting the data, rewriting it, checking and one more time inverting data, rewriting, ...

While basic check missed the problem, this deep checking, which took over 10 hours, actually revealed a few weak spots/sectors in the middle of the HDD. Spinrite has apparently managed to repair these spots, since a re-deep-check on the same spot showed nothing.

I have reinserted the HDD in the JVC, and I am in the process of making new recordings to check whether the "random frozen frames" phenomenon comes back. So far it has not, but I just recorded a few hours (SP mode).

I'll let you know.

.merle1.

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andywilks
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backing up

Post by andywilks »

Our computer expert Geert Jan , showed/told us how to use Ghost in raw mode as the correct way to make backups of these partitions (I presume other programs do do it , but haven't any experience).

It has some limitations, since it won't let you restore to drives smaller than the image size- even if you have only taken the first 2Gb - for test purposes. (I was trying to get the image on another type of 80Gb HDD, but geometry reported slighlty less space available on that drive!)

Also I don't know how to 'stitch' parts of tan image together. ie take the first 1 gig of actual image/OS area and add/create lots of space on the end - so that a small image (on DVD-r) can be used to fill an 80Gb drive- since just the first segment should be required with the OS in it.

EagleFlyFree
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Post by EagleFlyFree »

Hi all,

Just wanted to tell that my HDS1 is working again! After five HDD crashes I finally got hold of a good drive. It's been sitting in my unit for three weeks now, probably recorded/played 30 - 40 hours in total. Seems it was just a matter of finding a drive in good condition after all...

MerleOne
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Post by MerleOne »

Just a short update : I have now made more recordings on my HDS1, almost filling up the spinrite-repaired HDD and all the "frozen images" phenomenons seem to be gone now. So I guess it should be ok now, at least for some time.

Thanks again for the support.

.merle1.

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Andy Cippico
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Post by Andy Cippico »

EagleFlyFree wrote:Hi all,

Just wanted to tell that my HDS1 is working again! After five HDD crashes I finally got hold of a good drive. It's been sitting in my unit for three weeks now, probably recorded/played 30 - 40 hours in total. Seems it was just a matter of finding a drive in good condition after all...
Good news at last!
It seems that these units really don't like bad sectors, do they?

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