Boot Problem ... and its resolution

For all discussions regarding the JVC HM-HDS4 (80GB hard disk and S-VHS recorder)

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burwood
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:27 am

Boot Problem ... and its resolution

Post by burwood » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:56 am

I thought the users of this forum might be interested in the following ...

I too had a boot problem with my HDS4 - out of warranty period - in about October 2005.

I spoke to my dealer who refered me to JVC technical services who refered me to customer services.

JVC customer services were not helpful - as others have found.

I pointed out that the failure appeared to be caused by a design error that was inherent in the machine from purchase ... which was therefore not "fit for purpose" and not of "merchantable quality" at the time of purchase ...

JVC refered me back to my retailer (which I think is probably strictly correct but not very helpful - after all, it's not the retailer's fault if there is a design error).

The dealer was Peter Tyson.

I contacted them with the e-mail copied below.

They dealt with the matter excellently - and I sincerely recommend them for the excellence of their customer service in this matter and in others.

They tried to get JVC involved again ... apparently without success. However they were not prepared to let the matter drop.

In the end they offered me either a replacement HDS4 (but noted that any replacement HDS4 would presumably have the same defect!) or a DR-MH300 as an alternative - which I accepted.

I have been using the DR-MH300 very happily since (although I have noticed that over time the effective hard drive capacity has been reducing - even when all recorded programmes have been deleted from the drive ... anyone know how to restore it to full capacity? .... it's down to less that half what the manual states it should be now - only 27 hours in SP as opposed to about 69! I assume it is caused by some kind of fragmentation that is not being sorted out by disc maintenance (assuming there is any!)

Good luck to anyone else who is trying to sort out this problem!

_____________________________________

Copy (edited to remove personal information) of e-mail to retailer:

Dear Sir

Towards the end of last year I contacted you in connection with a JVC HM-HDS4 that I purchased from you ...

You asked me to call JVC Technical Services who told me to contact JVC Customer Services.

I have since been in lengthy correspondence with JVC Customer services to attempt to resolve the issue, but they have informed me that since my
complaint is of a "merchantable quality" type that I have to sort it out with the retailer - ie you. (Whilst I think this is technically correct legally ... I think it is poor service on their part since I believe the issue to arise as a result of a design problem and implementation of software problem in the machine which, whilst sold by you, is really their problem ... and no doubt you will actually claim against them in the event of our reaching any greement on this issue).

The SVHS/HDD recorder stopped working correctly. When the unit is turned on the hard drive light flashes repeatedly with the disk spinning and the intro logos displayed on the television. It never gets passed this "initial"stage. Even if switched to SVHS mode it switches itself to HDD mode and continues as described. In other words it fails to "boot up" correctly.

I have checked the symptoms of the problem and have discovered that a number of other purchasers have had identical problems with their models (and its predecessor). This indicates a design or manufacturing problem which has been present since purchase. The problem appears to be that under certain circumstances (especially when the hard disc is relatively full) it is possible for the saved programmes to overwrite the operating software - rendering the machine useless since it is unable to boot up. The problem only manifests itself if these circumstances arise ... though the underlying problem has been present in the machine since purchase.

Under the Sale of Goods Act you (my retailer) have a responsibility to your customers for up to 6 years in the event of one of your products being unfit for purpose (in this case being unable to record or play black recordings - the purpose of the machine) or of unsatisfactory quality (in this case failing to operate for a reasonable lifespan and containing a defect from manufacture) - irrespective of the guarantee period given.

It is reasonable to expect that a Hard drive video recorder costing ?585 would work for longer than two years and would be free from a manufacturing defect which has caused a number of units to fail in an identical manner and which has been present since purchase.

The product is (and was since purchase) clearly therefore both unfit for purpose (does not function correctly) and of unsatisfactory quality (fails consistently across units) .

Under the Sale of Goods Act I am therefore entitled to one of the following:
1) a replacement model
2) a repair free of charge

In either case you are obliged to meet the costs of transportation etc.
Alternatively you may offer me a refund - which in the circumstances seems the easiest way forward.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed.

I hope that we can resolve this matter speedily and amicably. However, in the event that we cannot do so I regret that I will have to pursue the issue via the small claims court procedure and/or trading standards since this is too large a purchase to simply use as an expensive paperweight.

Please acknowledge receipt of this e-mail.

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Andy Cippico
Site Admin
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:54 am
Location: England

Post by Andy Cippico » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:21 pm

Hi burwood,

Thanks for the post. Good to hear that Peter Tyson were so accommodating. You don't get that very often, do you? It's great to hear a good news story, even though your DR-MH300 is eating its drive...

I've got the same problem with a 3-month old desktop Cyberman that the Gadget Shop won't honour the statutory warranty on - but that's hardly in the PVR league!

Andy.

burwood
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:27 am

Post by burwood » Thu May 10, 2007 5:56 pm

Hi Andy

Yes - excellent service from Peter Tyson's.

The disc consumption problem continues however with the DRMH300 ... now down to a mere 19 hours in SP mode.

Anyone have any ideas about this problem?

Happy to provide any additional details that might be of assistance ...

Thanks

burwood

User avatar
andywilks
Moderator
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:38 am
Location: Pendle Witch Country, Lancs

Post by andywilks » Fri May 11, 2007 11:31 am

Sounds like a job for the JVC supplied Adviser PRO software to recover HDD operating system etc on these models.

User avatar
andywilks
Moderator
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:38 am
Location: Pendle Witch Country, Lancs

Post by andywilks » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:31 am

Just correcting the above... there is only a firmware upgrade for the DRMH300, and no Adviser software.....

There are a lot of problems with early units DVD drives failing and which ones can be F/ware upgraded without replacing- plus which need to be replaced.

Darwin07
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:09 pm

Re: Boot Problem ... and its resolution

Post by Darwin07 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:12 pm

burwood wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:56 am
I thought the users of this forum might be interested in the following ...

I too had a boot problem with my HDS4 - out of warranty period - in about October 2005.

I spoke to my dealer who refered me to JVC technical services who refered me to customer services.

JVC customer services were not helpful - as others have found.

I pointed out that the failure appeared to be caused by a design error that was inherent in the machine from purchase ... which was therefore not "fit for purpose" and not of "merchantable quality" at the time of purchase ...

JVC refered me back to my retailer (which I think is probably strictly correct but not very helpful - after all, it's not the retailer's fault if there is a design error).

The dealer was Peter Tyson.

I contacted them with the e-mail copied below.

They dealt with the matter excellently - and I sincerely recommend them for the excellence of their customer service in this matter and in others.

They tried to get JVC involved again ... apparently without success. However they were not prepared to let the matter drop.

In the end they offered me either a replacement HDS4 (but noted that any replacement HDS4 would presumably have the same defect!) or a DR-MH300 as an alternative - which I accepted.

I have been using the DR-MH300 very happily since (although I have noticed that over time the effective hard drive capacity has been reducing - even when all recorded programmes have been deleted from the drive ... anyone know how to restore it to full capacity? .... it's down to less that half what the manual states it should be now - only 27 hours in SP as opposed to about 69! I assume it is caused by some kind of fragmentation that is not being sorted out by disc maintenance (assuming there is any!)

Good luck to anyone else who is trying to sort out this problem!

_____________________________________

Copy (edited to remove personal information) of e-mail to retailer:

Dear Sir

Towards the end of last year I contacted you in connection with a JVC HM-HDS4 that I purchased from you ...

You asked me to call JVC Technical Services who told me to contact JVC Customer Services.

I have since been in lengthy correspondence with JVC Customer services to attempt to resolve the issue, but they have informed me that since my
complaint is of a "merchantable quality" type that I have to sort it out with the retailer - ie you. (Whilst I think this is technically correct legally ... I think it is poor service on their part since I believe the issue to arise as a result of a design problem and implementation of software problem in the machine which, whilst sold by you, is really their problem ... and no doubt you will actually claim against them in the event of our reaching any greement on this issue).

The SVHS/HDD recorder stopped working correctly. When the unit is turned on the hard drive light flashes repeatedly with the disk spinning and the intro logos displayed on the television. It never gets passed this "initial"stage. Even if switched to SVHS mode it switches itself to HDD mode and continues as described. In other words it fails to "boot up" correctly.

I have checked the symptoms of the problem and have discovered that a number of other purchasers have had identical problems with their models (and its predecessor). This indicates a design or manufacturing problem which has been present since purchase. The problem appears to be that under certain circumstances (especially when the hard disc is relatively full) it is possible for the saved programmes to overwrite the operating software - rendering the machine useless since it is unable to boot up. The problem only manifests itself if these circumstances arise ... though the underlying problem has been present in the machine since purchase.

Under the Sale of Goods Act you (my retailer) have a responsibility to your customers for up to 6 years in the event of one of your products being unfit for purpose (in this case being unable to record or play black recordings - the purpose of the machine) or of unsatisfactory quality (in this case failing to operate for a reasonable lifespan and containing a defect from manufacture) - irrespective of the guarantee period given.

It is reasonable to expect that a Hard drive video recorder costing ?585 would work for longer than two years and would be free from a manufacturing defect which has caused a number of units to fail in an identical manner and which has been present since purchase.

The product is (and was since purchase) Darwin07
clearly therefore both unfit for purpose (does not function correctly) and of unsatisfactory quality (fails consistently across units) .

Under the Sale of Goods Act I am therefore entitled to one of the following:
1) a replacement model
2) a repair free of charge

In either case you are obliged to meet the costs of transportation etc.
Alternatively you may offer me a refund - which in the circumstances seems the easiest way forward.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed.

I hope that we can resolve this matter speedily and amicably. However, in the event that we cannot do so I regret that I will have to pursue the issue via the small claims court procedure and/or trading standards since this is too large a purchase to simply use as an expensive paperweight.

Please acknowledge receipt of this e-mail.
Thank you for your explanantion

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